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View Full Version : What loads for home defense?



Iraq 69
01-12-2011, 09:35 PM
Hey All,
I have a Winchester 1300 Defender 12 ga. What loads should I use for home use? I don't really want to use slugs or OO and figured that maybe #4 or #6 would not go to far after it hits the wall.:rolleyes:
This is new stuff tme.
Marc

JONESN
01-12-2011, 09:37 PM
any and all loads!

Michael T
01-12-2011, 09:53 PM
No smaller than #4 buck OO is still the best. Why are you hitting wall shot gun needs to be aimed. You get approx 1" per yd spread no matter the choke at close ranges (inside house) They are not alley sweepers or room cleaner . I will not use a shot gun except from fix position. No house clearing to easy to get taken away . I use a pistol in side I also use night lights or leave lights on at different locations .

Yote
01-17-2011, 05:51 AM
Since my shotguns first use is turkey hunting,I use my turkey loads for home defense.Federal Premium 3" magnum #4s with a 2oz load of lead.

Eliminator
01-17-2011, 07:06 AM
Do not believe the myth that shotguns do not penetrate the wall. In my CHL class they showed a real life mockup of a wall in which #4 blew a nice hole clear theough the wall. Also MT is right. In the size of a normal room the spread of the shot is not a room clearer. The impact area of the shots will be between 3 to 5". you still need to aim the shots to ensure a hit. Now with that being said there is nothing like the roar of a shotgun to inspire terror.

mitchr
01-17-2011, 08:11 AM
Quote: "nothing like the roar of a shotgun to inspire terror."

'Course, the sound of a .45 ain't bad. :smile:

Fastlane
01-17-2011, 12:22 PM
OO buck is probably the most common answer, but some consider 4 buck the best choice. Since you mentioned #4 and #6 together, I understand it to mean you are referring to birdshot. 4 buckshot is not the same as #4 birdshot.

00 buck, .33" dia., 9 pellets per oz.
4 buck, .24" dia., 21 pellets per oz.
4 bird, .129 dia, 135 pellets per oz.

I just didn't want you to confuse the two since you will probably see 4 buck suggested sometimes.

PHMadness
01-17-2011, 12:40 PM
You don't need any ammo. Just rack the thing and every bad guy within 6 miles will immediately crap themselves and run. If you put a laser on it they will lay down and die for you.

It's true. I read it on the internet lots of times.:rolleyes:


Really I have #4 buck in mine. I selected that only because I got a deal on a case. 00 buck would be just fine too.

Muddog
01-17-2011, 12:46 PM
i have pretty much the same gun..... i keep mine stocked with home loaded 3" mags loaded with mix of #2 and #4 buck (got the idea from some home defense rounds that came with 2 n 4) but if using factory ammo i would probably choose #4... spread will be about the same as 00 but coverage is improved and if you hit COM with a load of #4 buck i don't think they will walk away.
i keep 2&4 in first 3 rounds with the remaining being slugs

as to wall penetration if it won't penetrate an inch of drywall how the heck it gonna go through clothes meat an bone?

many choose birdshot... to me thats bad idea (been shot at close range in the leg with #6...no major injuries and had to walk 1/2 mile back home) even without my own experience look at cheney's buddy..... birdshot to the face and a few days later he's apologizin on tv....don't get me wrong it gonna hurt like hell and may even give you a larger coverage area but wounds most likely to be shallow and not immediately life threatening.... i'd grab my 22 before usin birdshot

box'o'truth did a test of drywall penetration and shotgun rounds i suggest reading it its fairly informative

Mason
01-17-2011, 01:16 PM
In your bedroom the "roar" of a .22 is enough to make the BGs at least mess them self's a little. A cop-bud of mine has said his 2 biggest surprises with shooting in small rooms is the sound (unprotected ears) and the muzzle flash.

Muddog
01-17-2011, 01:26 PM
In your bedroom the "roar" of a .22 is enough to make the BGs at least mess them self's a little. A cop-bud of mine has said his 2 biggest surprises with shooting in small rooms is the sound (unprotected ears) and the muzzle flash.

thats why i no longer keep my 357 by the bed.... shot some of my hot loads at night and it was nearly 5 min before i could see again.. in my shotgun loads for defense i use low flash powder it makes a HUGE difference in the dark....can still see after firing.... as to the noise well not much i can do there with the shotgun however i have some rounds for my rifles that are quieter than most 22's

Mason
01-17-2011, 01:35 PM
And with the MT pointy light.. You could bore the BG to death showing him details of the spread sheet that you have up on the board.

Reginald Carstairs
01-17-2011, 02:17 PM
I use any 2.3/4" 00 buck with the low brass a good one is Federal Tactical. No full loads or magnums required. 12 or 20 GA. fine.

Like MT said these are best if you know where your targets coming from...through the front (Side) door and you are in a defensive and ready position. (Remember the movie Kill Bill) That is what a shot gun is good for. Damn that rock salt must have hurt her.

Pond Scum
01-17-2011, 03:54 PM
Since my shotguns first use is turkey hunting,I use my turkey loads for home defense.Federal Premium 3" magnum #4s with a 2oz load of lead.

Whoa! I tried shooting some 3" loads with 000 buck and it sure packed a punch ..... well at least my shoulder was sore! I still have it loaded up with 3" but I am going to shoot them out and put 2 3/4" 00 back in it.

-Pondy

Quaato
01-18-2011, 06:01 PM
In my Mossy 500 it goes like this:

First two = #4 Buck
Second two = 00 Buck
Last three = 1oz. Slug

Iraq 69
01-18-2011, 06:27 PM
Hey All,
Thanks for the input. I'll go shopping soon and use the birdshot for practice.
Marc

eurolynn
01-25-2011, 08:09 PM
My uncle, when I was a teen, told me, "Mark all the doors in some way at 30", and when someone breaks in uninvited, just shoot below the marked to avoid the over penetration problem. This is what I do for your aunt and cousins." I asked what he did for himself, he said "I'm aiming above the line because I am going to kill the S.O.B!"

NCFlyfisher
01-25-2011, 08:23 PM
Does rock salt & bacon still work?

J_C
01-25-2011, 09:19 PM
My shotgun is a Remington 870P 18" cylinder bore with extended magazine tube. Same kind of gun I carried as a cop back about 20 years ago. That was a long time ago when only SWAT teams carried rifles and regular street cops just carried a .38 on the hip and a shotgun in the rack.

I keep 2 rounds of #4 buck up front followed by 4 rounds of 00 buck, 2 3/4" non-magnum high-brass shells, empty chamber, safety on, slide lock released. That's how I carried it on duty and trained with, so I'm comfortable with that set up. Rack, click, pull trigger, bang. Well, we carried all 00-buck but otherwise the same.

No kids and we have lath and plaster walls (old house) so penetration isn't a big issue.

Michael T
01-25-2011, 09:21 PM
(Remember the movie Kill Bill) That is what a shot gun is good for. Damn that rock salt must have hurt her.I would have been glad to have help her in removing the rock salt . I loved the part where she walks out of the cemetery and in to the dinner. Sits down and asks for a glass of water . She would have got it he self If I was working mid and saw her coming like that. I love kill bill I have all 3 of the Swords . The are fully functional 55 to57 on edge 40's something on the spine .
I have Todd Sweeney straight razor also but hated the movie .

darrellkansas
02-01-2011, 09:09 AM
I have a Remington 870 home defense 18' smooth bore barrel no choke.It is loaded with #1 buck 16 pellet.

I testing the #1 and # 4 performed the same. OO did not do a whole lot more on wall penetration

Here is a great site that I used to help on my choice,we all know the site.............box 'o truth

http://www.theboxotruth.com/docs/bot3.htm

Iraq 69
02-01-2011, 12:37 PM
Hey darrellkansas,
Thanks for the link. Very helpful info......a body can't have too much info.
Take care,
Marc

bersatoter
02-01-2011, 07:31 PM
Hey All,
I have a Winchester 1300 Defender 12 ga. What loads should I use for home use? I don't really want to use slugs or OO and figured that maybe #4 or #6 would not go to far after it hits the wall.:rolleyes:
This is new stuff tme.
Marc

I just read an article on this in a popular gun magazine and they said that #2 and 0 buckshot are best. You still get a decent pattern at twenty or so feet and the effects are devastating on flesh. They built mock ups of standard walls and shot them to see the effects of penetration. What made it thru the wall was at a velocity that would not have been lethal to someone on the other side. They did not say whether or not it would leave a mark though! I have a nice Mossberg that I keep loaded with 0 buckshot, instead of the 3" Magnum Turkey loads that I used to keep it loaded with after reading that article!

NCFlyfisher
02-01-2011, 10:17 PM
Has anyone tried the new Winchester PDX1 shotgun ammo?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jJdRRJ90bXE

bersatoter
02-03-2011, 12:22 AM
Has anyone tried the new Winchester PDX1 shotgun ammo?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jJdRRJ90bXE

I have not, but I should. I have read some good things about it.

Bones
02-03-2011, 07:17 PM
Brass fetcher has some shotgun tests. #4 buck seems like a good combination of penetration and pellet count. http://www.brassfetcher.com/index_files/Page484.htm

zephyr9900
03-05-2011, 10:13 AM
Has any one looked at DDupleks Ammo? I use Winchester PDX1's for the first two & DUPO7's as the last three rounds in my Judge with a laser grip.

PHMadness
03-05-2011, 11:33 AM
Has any one looked at DDupleks Ammo?
No, but my interest is piqued.
I usually shy away from anything gimmicky, this stuff looks like it might actually be a useful hunting round. I still shy away from it for SD use and would like to see some independent reviews.

gun sane
03-05-2011, 01:21 PM
I bought 250 rounds of low recoil Fiocchi 12 ga. with 00 buck so that the sweet young thing I married doesn't land on her butt shooting it. They lower the velocity, hence the penetration, of the pellets to hopefully keep everything inside the BG. I've heard that Federal makes a low recoil 12 ga. shotshell in #4 buck, but I haven't investigated. This may be a good compromise, but I've got a lot of shooting to do before I'd buy some.

johnnya
03-05-2011, 02:50 PM
i have pretty much the same gun..... i keep mine stocked with home loaded 3" mags loaded with mix of #2 and #4 buck (got the idea from some home defense rounds that came with 2 n 4) but if using factory ammo i would probably choose #4... spread will be about the same as 00 but coverage is improved and if you hit COM with a load of #4 buck i don't think they will walk away.
i keep 2&4 in first 3 rounds with the remaining being slugs

as to wall penetration if it won't penetrate an inch of drywall how the heck it gonna go through clothes meat an bone?

many choose birdshot... to me thats bad idea (been shot at close range in the leg with #6...no major injuries and had to walk 1/2 mile back home) even without my own experience look at cheney's buddy..... birdshot to the face and a few days later he's apologizin on tv....don't get me wrong it gonna hurt like hell and may even give you a larger coverage area but wounds most likely to be shallow and not immediately life threatening.... i'd grab my 22 before usin birdshot

box'o'truth did a test of drywall penetration and shotgun rounds i suggest reading it its fairly informative

hey muddog, I have some 12 ga Remmington ultimate home defense shells. If that is the shell you are reffering to , its actually a mix of 2 and 4 bird size shot, not buck shot. I have those loaded as 1st 2 shells, then some low recoil 00 buck for the last 2 shells.

Hunter757
03-17-2011, 03:46 PM
Does rock salt & bacon still work?

Yes it does!!

I use #4 buck Law enforcement rounds they pack a huge punch!!! Be sure to pratice shooting your shotgun from your hip its a different feeling and the recoil. Getting use to shooting of hip will only help you in a break in!!

SecureT9HC
03-17-2011, 08:06 PM
Do they make a Glazer Safety Slug in 12 ga? :tinfoil3:

Brock
11-24-2011, 06:10 PM
If you are looking for nasty, I bought a box of Centurion 12 Gauge, 2 3/4 Buck and Ball, .650 steel ball (1) followed by (6) 00 buck. Reviews I read after I bought it paint an ugly picture for the receipient, I have not loaded it up ............yet. :angel:

rambo_k9
01-18-2012, 04:21 PM
thats why i no longer keep my 357 by the bed.... shot some of my hot loads at night and it was nearly 5 min before i could see again.. in my shotgun loads for defense i use low flash powder it makes a HUGE difference in the dark....can still see after firing.... as to the noise well not much i can do there with the shotgun however i have some rounds for my rifles that are quieter than most 22's

So very true! I'm looking to sell my Taurus Judge for just this reason..... It may do the job and I'll be alive but I'll be blind and deaf. Can't imagine close quarters w 12 gauge. Looking to downsize my and wife's nightstand guns for that reason. I have a .40 and she has .38+p revolver.

garwha
02-20-2012, 03:31 PM
I haven't seen this said, so here goes. Shot size is more about range, and penetration. If you have hunted much with a shotgun you should know on dove and quail about 40 yards is all there is with #8 bird shot, but a 00 buck can go though a window and kill someone across the street. One of the prime reason for the shotgun inside is to not shoot the neighbors. At the average distance of 10 feet in the house even a load of #4 shot is a pure colume at that distance and very deadly, but won't likely kill a person even 30 yards away. If you don't have any neighbors or children 00 is just great, but otherwise you might prefer a little lighter load. I just go with nice slow 1911 .45 and try to make sure the bad guy stops the round.

asreb
02-27-2012, 01:21 AM
I keep my 12 gauge loaded with #8 shot, slug, shot, slug, shot. I figure in most circumstances the sound of the action will scare away most bad guys....wait....n/m I keep my shotgun ready to fire so all the bad guy would here is the click of the safety.

gtgeorge
02-27-2012, 01:54 AM
I keep my 12 gauge loaded with #8 shot, slug, shot, slug, shot. I figure in most circumstances the sound of the action will scare away most bad guys....wait....n/m I keep my shotgun ready to fire so all the bad guy would here is the click of the safety.
I recall Tred Barta mentioning the sound of an 870 safety being disengaged was the most scared he had ever been on a turkey hunt and jumped up waving arms and said "don't shoot". So you are probably right that when they hear that menacing sound, threat will be over, or is it right after the menacing boom?

Fastlane
02-27-2012, 09:37 AM
Federal is releasing a new #1 buckshot load, LE132 1B

http://le.atk.com/general/federalproducts/shotshell/tacticalbuckshot.aspx

Also, scroll down to Buckshot in this catalog to see the tight patterns from Federal's Flitecontrol wad and check out the Truball slugs just above.

http://le.atk.com/pdf/FederalLECatalog.pdf

I tested LE127 00 *1325 fps and they had the tightest pattern by far of any brand I tested. The LE132 00 and LE132 1B are reduced velocity to 1145 fps. At HD ranges with the tight pattern from Flitecontrol, you are either going to have all pellets on target or completely miss. Other 00 designs could often miss with a couple of pellets or more on every shot, if you are just a bit off center mass of the target. Whatever you choose, you should test them for accuracy and pattern because they all aren't the same.

PerpetualConstruction
02-27-2012, 01:01 PM
I keep my 870 topped off with 00-#2-00-#2-Slug. Gotta' believe, though, that both me and BG would be blind and deaf after the first shot. Hopefully one of us will have 9 .32" holes somewhere and won't need to worry about a second shot. Also lathe and plaster walls w/ brick exterior, so my neighbors are safe.

Michael T
02-27-2012, 04:42 PM
Finishing nails across room really nasty head on side ways they are pointed every direction Should be no wall or very few on penteration . Notice it up to you to explain how he fell in to you nail supply and got hurt.

Horseshoe
02-27-2012, 06:06 PM
Finishing nails across room really nasty head on side ways they are pointed every direction Should be no wall or very few on penteration . Notice it up to you to explain how he fell in to you nail supply and got hurt.

I say go 3.5" framing nails :) 3,000 nails for $30. Great value or the money. Load up 50+ in the gun and it is even CO2 operated. Great idea! Plus if u put one in the wall just hang a picture.

Yote
02-27-2012, 09:12 PM
I keep my 870 loaded with Federal premium 3" with a 2oz load of #4's.At 20 yards outta the Comp-N-Choke,the pattern opening up just enough to blow a hole the size of a soft ball.No need for anything else.

aero
03-30-2012, 12:31 PM
Bringing my 1983 Winchester Model 120, 12G, long barrel out of mothballs for temporary home defense, until I can get a real, genuine Home Defense Mossberg 8 shot, very short barrel Shotgun especially made for Home Defense, it has only a 20 inch barrel so it can be swung around without hitting narrow hallway walls, 30" total length vs my current SG length of 48", and the 30" has no butt stock, would prefer one of the many 18.5 barrel lengths, but couldn't find one in what I wanted in an overall package.

About muzzle flash, I guess I will just have to shut my eyes immediately after or during trigger pull, and that Low Recoil Shell sounds like a winner, especially with 8 rounds to fire.

Want to check what the shot spread is on the Taurus .410/.454 Casul before I put down the big bucks.

Since my 1983 Winchester 120 has been sitting or so long I need to learn how to lube the monster, have a can of Remington Shotgun oil. It only holds 3 shells currently, need to expand the chamber to hold 5 shells? ?

Mason
03-30-2012, 06:41 PM
You make it to put all five in the chamber? :yikes:

russwehnau
03-31-2012, 02:09 PM
Here are something some other 12 gauge ammo options

http://www.hi-vel.com/Catalog__25/Specialized_Shotshell_Ammuniti/specialized_shotshell_ammuniti.html

But... 00 buck in the home shotgun for what it is worth. Not worried about overpenetration here in the country.

RH390HP
05-19-2012, 06:23 PM
I have two 12g pumps. One is loaded with .00 buck and the other with slugs. I use bird shot for skeet shooting. And I always have .45 within reach. Enter uninvited, leave unalive.

Michael T
05-19-2012, 11:03 PM
Want to check what the shot spread is on the Taurus .410/.454 Casul before I put down the big bucks.


Don't waste your time or money on a 410 pistol.

You all know you can buy a used pump and cut the barrel to 18.5 inches. Remove plug in mag and save all this I got to buy a tac cool roit shot gun nonsense.
I have a lovely 870 Wingmaster with a cut barrel and extened mag. It isn't silly black but it will work just as well .

DocNugent
08-27-2012, 11:29 PM
. . . What loads should I use for home use? I don't really want to use slugs or OO and figured that maybe #4 or #6 would not go to far after it hits the wall.:rolleyes: . . .
When we did some research, we found that there's a type of 00 buck that has less penetration than standard #4 buck - Federal calls theirs LE 13200 Reduced Recoil (Remington also makes something similar). In addition to less penetration, there is less of a fireball (that blinds you in a darkened room) and, you guessed it, less recoil (the reason we bought them).

Here's a pic of The Missus firing some at clays on the ground:
http://www.carcentric.com/chainsaw-RFGC.jpg
and here's a pic of how we modified the Chainsaw (Knoxx recoil reducing pistol grip, bandolier single-point sling, 200 lumen LED light, and UTG forend grip):
http://carcentric.com/notachainsaw.jpg
We made the forend grip change so we could bring the gun up higher and use the (front only) sight rather than shooting from the waist as the Chainsaw grip makes almost necessary.

samefly
03-21-2013, 02:53 AM
Do not believe the myth that shotguns do not penetrate the wall. In my CHL class they showed a real life mockup of a wall in which #4 blew a nice hole clear theough the wall.

I've seen guys punch holes into walls. I can't imagine that ANY shotgun load would penetrate less than a human fist. Use what would stop that bad guy and be careful when you actually have to pull the trigger.

AquaHull
03-22-2013, 07:49 AM
In your bedroom the "roar" of a .22 is enough to make the BGs at least mess them self's a little. A cop-bud of mine has said his 2 biggest surprises with shooting in small rooms is the sound (unprotected ears) and the muzzle flash.
I touched off a LC9 in my bedroom last year, my ears are still ringing from it.

ParaCav
03-22-2013, 12:26 PM
Has anyone tried the new Winchester PDX1 shotgun ammo?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jJdRRJ90bXE
I have some 3" PDX1 for my .410. They also make it for 12ga. I have read mixed reviews about PDX1, it is a close range shot shell, most effective at 20 ft or less. From what I understand the buckshot spreads out real fast. It's kinda a pissing contest between PDX1 and buckshot. I can't imagine why one whould shoot PDX1 at a target beyond 20 ft anyway. It is a personal defense load, not a hunting load. Anyway I am going to find out for myself using PDX1 and buckshot as soon as this crappy weather breaks. My guess that at 20 ft it aint gonna make much difference which you use.

mitchr
03-22-2013, 12:34 PM
I have some 3" PDX1 for my .410. They also make it for 12ga. I have read mixed reviews about PDX1, it is a close range shot shell, most effective at 20 ft or less. From what I understand the buckshot spreads out real fast. It's kinda a pissing contest between PDX1 and buckshot. I can't imagine why one whould shoot PDX1 at a target beyond 20 ft anyway. It is a personal defense load, not a hunting load. Anyway I am going to find out for myself using PDX1 and buckshot as soon as this crappy weather breaks. My guess that at 20 ft it aint gonna make much difference which you use.

Let us know how it goes. I've been thinking about getting it for my .410. The man at Academy said it was easier on the ears. I figured that was just smoke? In our small house, 20 ft. is probably max distance, except in the case of from my bedroom door to the door out into the garage.

Stockpaintballer911
03-24-2013, 11:35 PM
My pump is loaded with #4 buck followed with 00buck then slug. The pattern is repeated by blessed silver #4 buck and a similarly treated slug. One never knows.

Pond Scum
03-25-2013, 08:43 AM
I have 00 loaded up in the 870. I can't imagine the sound in the bedroom

PHMadness
03-25-2013, 08:49 AM
I have 00 loaded up in the 870. I can't imagine the sound in the bedroom
I fired a round of 12g from inside my dad's workshop once to see what it would sound like inside. It was pretty unpleasant.

kingd3001
06-10-2013, 08:16 PM
In my home defense shotgun i really like #4 buckshot

PHMadness
06-10-2013, 09:21 PM
In my home defense shotgun i really like #4 buckshotMe too. If for no other reason than I have a lifetimes supply of Federal Tactical/LE full power loads. Bought a case of 250 back when ammo was cheap, probably have 220 or so left after all these years. I've given more away to friends than I've fired too.

Michael T
06-10-2013, 09:29 PM
I just reread this post. You all must be some crummy shots all this worry about shooting thru walls . With your shot gun Aim the dam thing COM and you won't hit the wall . If you have one of those silly shot guns with a pistol grip only. Replace it with a real stock . Better yet leave it in the safe and use a pistol Folks at 20' or less a 380 is going to hurt and you can fire 3 times to 1 shot gun shoot and rack .

Have any of you pump shot gun people ever had a round jump out of mag tube part way or all way . You shot gun is done. Lock up tight ,won't work. Until you figure out how to get that round back in the mag tube. It does happen and even more of a chance in a self defense than bird hunting.

Nick Burkhardt
06-10-2013, 09:38 PM
4291

Rio Royal #4 Buckshot 21 pellets keeps a decent pattern at 7 yards from my 12guage 18.5" Mossberg 500. Good penetration, but not overpenetration.
4292

My first shell in and last out is high velocity 00 Buck because if I have already shot four, screw overpenetration. Also the bigger boom tell me I am out instead of a click after cycling.

NCFlyfisher
06-16-2013, 12:35 PM
The one on the bottom is what is used in our prisons. The top one I bought for myself.

http://i.imgur.com/lAGMFLi.jpg?1

gtgeorge
06-16-2013, 05:43 PM
I look forward to your report on those 3" Fly. I was surprised to say the least when I tried them in 3.5"....I shot and bagged 2 critters. One Coyote on the receiving in and my dang shoulder on the other end. I never thought I was recoil sensitive but I still have the other 4 almost 2 years later. I shoot a 7mag 100+ rounds at a time like it's nothing, but that smarted.

gun sane
06-16-2013, 05:54 PM
Our shotguns are loaded with low recoil shells. The Princess can't take the full patch loads are I don't want to if I don't have to. Besides, you know what the BG does when he hears you rack a round.............That's right, MT, he fires in the sound's direction. That's why I have it recorded on a remote CD player on the other side of the house. :devil:

NCFlyfisher
06-16-2013, 07:53 PM
I look forward to your report on those 3" Fly. I was surprised to say the least when I tried them in 3.5"....I shot and bagged 2 critters. One Coyote on the receiving in and my dang shoulder on the other end. I never thought I was recoil sensitive but I still have the other 4 almost 2 years later. I shoot a 7mag 100+ rounds at a time like it's nothing, but that smarted.

Thanks, GTG! I've got some sheet rock left over. I could do a double walled test again, like and normal house wall being 16" studs apart. Been trying to get a sponsor with this new clear ballistics gel. But doing a gel test with a shotgun would take a lot of material I think.